Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?


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  1. #1
    Prolific Poster normnet's Avatar
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    Default Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Tesla acquires ultracapacitor and battery manufacturer for over $200 million

    The automaker might be more interested with Maxwell’s dry electrode technology that they have been hyping recently.

    Maxwell claims that its electrode enables an energy density of over 300 Wh/kg in current demonstration cells and they see a path to over 500 Wh/kg.

    This would represent a significant improvement over current battery cells used by Tesla and enable longer range or lighter weight, but that’s not even the most attractive benefit of Maxwell’s dry electrode.

    They claim that it should simplify the manufacturing process and result in a “10 to 20% cost reduction versus state-of-the-art wet electrodes” while “extending battery Life up to a factor of 2.”

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    Junior Member david's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Thanks for posting - a most interesting read. I would have thought that $200 million was cheap for technology that might take you from current energy densities of around 240Wh/kg to 500Wh/kg. Halving the weight of the energy source or doubling the range of a vehicle is a massive change that can't be achieved any other way and would provide an incredible marketing edge. So is Bolivia going to become the Saudi Arabia of the electric vehicle age?

    Cheers,
    David

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    Fanatical Contributor top204's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    That's one of the reasons I would not even consider an electric or hybrid car at this moment in time, or in the next 10 years.

    Battery technology is not even nearly ready for electric vehicles just yet, and a battery's life is dreadful, and they are stupidly expensive. Once, they've sorted out the batteries to something sensible, both inexpensive to create, and efficient with a long lifespan, then electric vehicles will be worth it, but not now!

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    Member basparky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Quote Originally Posted by Les View Post
    That's one of the reasons I would not even consider an electric or hybrid car at this moment in time, or in the next 10 years.

    Battery technology is not even nearly ready for electric vehicles just yet, and a battery's life is dreadful, and they are stupidly expensive. Once, they've sorted out the batteries to something sensible, both inexpensive to create, and efficient with a long lifespan, then electric vehicles will be worth it, but not now!
    I'm happy to read your reply Les!
    people who buy an electric car today and think that this is better for the environment are well misled! (in the Netherlands)
    I always try to tell these people who are proud of their contribution to the environment that they actually use brown coal to drive there car. Highly polluting !!
    today's electrical cars with pour battery technology and energy retrieved from (brown) coal are a big joke to me. Principle is the same as the steam car built in 1672.
    people are (likes) being fooled big time.
    Sorry if i'm being to rude.
    regards,
    Bas

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    Fanatical Contributor top204's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    I couldn't agree more Bas.

    Your comment about the steam cars of the past are exactly what is happening now with electric cars. The technology is nowhere near ready, but buzz words and promotions tend to steer the sheep like people. Batteries do not make themselves, and are not found on trees! They need to be manufactured, using some very, very nasty chemicals, and lots of energy, and the mining of the Lithium destroys the environment on a vast scale. Yet they do not have a long life span, so the benefits are lost to the environment. The same is currently happening with batteries used in technology. They all use Lithium, which is a toxic metal when there is a lot of it. Also, the chemical process within a battery produces some nasty gases, and they will take over where CO2 is now, but even more dangerous!

    The same happened in the past with Lead and CFCs, even though they knew they were dangerous, the buzz words got the better of common sense, and commercialism overtook because money talks! Then they were eventually forced to reduce them, just as will happen in the future with the very silly Lithium chemistries. And they say "we learn from history"! Utter nonsense, as soon as money comes into it, common sense and decency disappears.

    I never understood why we in the UK were stopped producing and using cleaner, good quality black coal, yet Germany, and other european countries use, mostly, Polish brown coal on a vast scale, and this type of coal is extremely toxic and inefficient! We live in a world of double standards Bas.

    As I said above, once battery technology has been changed to a more efficient method than the current buzz word of "Lithium", electric vehicles will be both efficient and clean. I still don't understand why they did not develop and use hydrogen cells? Their waste products are oxygen and water, and they are extremely efficient! OK, the hydrogen still needs to be manufactured, but that is a readily available process and is very efficient in itself, and their raw material is H2O, of which the oxygen separated is fed back into the energy source to separate the H2O, so is even more efficient. They have also developed polymers that replace the exotic metals that were in them, such as platinum etc...
    Last edited by top204; 9th February 2019 at 11:14.

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    Senior Member Ken_K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Interesting conversation.
    the Wikipedia Energy Density page says it all.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
    or go straight to the image https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy...gy_density.svg

    Gasoline 46.4 MJ/kg
    Lithium-ion battery 0.36 to 0.875 MJ/kg
    Diesel 48 MJ/kg

    A modern diesel engine can be very efficient. The following is a quote from Wikipedia Diesel Engine "Engines in large diesel trucks, buses, and newer diesel cars can achieve peak efficiencies around 45%" ....."However, average efficiency over a driving cycle is lower than peak efficiency. For example, it might be 37% for an engine with a peak efficiency of 44%".

    An electric vehicle may have an efficiency of 85% to 90% this combined with regenerative braking is great for around town. BTW what is the overall efficiency like when the batteries are old?

    Batteries have a long way to go, OK for a car not so good for a B double with a mountain to climb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-train
    Regenerative braking won't do much for efficiency on a long run with little braking.

    Electric cars have the potential of reducing air pollution in our cities and in the case of coal powered generation simply moving it somewhere else.

    ken

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    Senior Member GAMBOA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Hi,
    I completely agree with you. In fact I just bought a diesel. I'm sorry for the gregarious people that Les talked about.

    Regards,
    Gamboa

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    Fanatical Contributor top204's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    I've only driven Diesel cars since the mid 1990s, I never wanted a troublesome petrol engine after some of the problems I had with them in the 80s. Then, here in the UK, Diesel was half the price of petrol, but now Diesel is much more expensive than petrol, even though it is actually the left overs from petrol manufacturing, which is why it was originally used. And the "stupids" behind desks, who don't live in the real world, are trying to make Diesel cars out to be a bad thing, and the sheep are following it on mass! Why?

    Diesels are cleaner, more efficient, and less trouble than petrol engines. They are trying their damnest to get rid of diesel cars, yet lorries and buses and vans etc seem to be immune, but there are millions of them!!!

    I will still drive diesels as long as I can, but it looks like local councils are trying to "cash in" on it, and make an extra tax for using a diesel car in some towns!

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    Prolific Poster RGV250's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Hi,
    2015 I bought my first diesel and then we had the VW Scandal and the value plumeted.
    To be honest I was not that impressed with the fuel consumption and decided to switch back. I bought a Prius and i am getting 15-20% better economy.
    As for what Ken says about regenerative braking, journeys
    in UK will always have this so it does work. I get much better fuel consumption on long motorway journeys.
    Also what nobody has mentioned is that it is just so calming driving a hybrid.
    I had 10 years in T sport Celicas and now find it just as enjoyable in the Prius. Probably got something to do with getting older as well.

    Bob

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    Prolific Poster normnet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGV250 View Post
    ...I had 10 years in T sport Celicas and now find it just as enjoyable in the Prius...

    Bob
    Prius is included in the list of vehicles that 'bring the most joy'

    Norm

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    Prolific Poster John Drew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    I agree with Ken, an interesting discussion. I had a drive of a Jaguar iPace the other day. No, I'm not going to spend $140,000 on a car, but I've got to say it was a really great car to drive with amazing acceleration, quiet and luxurious, and 4WD. I asked the dealer about battery replacement cost - it was mind blowing, I'm still wondering if I misheard.

    I spent some time in a Prius a few years back and noticed that the driver was very careful in acceleration and he read the road and traffic ahead intelligently. It was very relaxed driving. I wasn't surprised he got great mileage. He would have done great mileage in a V8 supercar For city folk a Prius makes great sense, but less so in the country with suicidal roos and heavy vehicles thundering towards a bloke on narrow roads.

    Living 400km from the Capital City my trips are often long ones and a diesel 4WD makes good sense. My wife prefers my car as it's easier to get in an out with the aid of the step.

    Unfortunately diesels are getting more complicated. In some ways it's a good thing as fewer and fewer trucks and other heavy vehicles spew smoke. New heavy vehicles now have to use AdBlue to cut out Nitrogen Oxides and particulate filters to cut out the fine particles so caught behind a truck is no longer as bad on the lungs as it once was.

    Vehicle choice will always be horses for courses. We like to occasionally drive across the nearby sandhills on the coast and onto the beach (the torque of a diesel pays off), also when towing a trailer across a boggy paddock to get some wood it's handy to have 4 wheels pedaling.

    All that being said I would love an electric vehicle for its smoothness and quiet, but not yet - battery life, range, cost, battery weight, lack of charging facilities and time to charge are real problems. Maybe Maxwell's technology will work.
    John

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    Prolific Poster joesaliba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Converted my car to LPG. Here price is half that of petrol.

    Having said that I am waiting for my CH-R Hybrid. Hope it is enjoyable to drive as the Prius!
    Regards

    Joseph

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    Fanatical Contributor top204's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    I never could afford a fancy, or new, car. :-( My Toyota is now 12 years old, coming up to 13 years, and I had to get that when I moved back up north because the dreadful Diesel Citroen Xara packed in on me yet again, and it was less expensive to scrap it and buy another older car.

    I first started with Diesels because they were, generally, cheaper to buy second hand back in the 1990s, and early 2000s. The early diesels I had were great. OK, not so much acceleration, but they did not have the silly and complex car management in them, so they were 99% reliable! You could drive into a wall slowly and the engine would still keep churning along. LOL It was virtually impossible to stall an original diesel engine, it would just sputter along in whatever gear was chosen. :-)

    Because diesel fuel was once so inexpensive and second hand petrol cars were dreadfully unreliable and inefficient, a diesel was a sensible choice to get to work and back. However, since they started to put the engine management into diesels, it's actually made them less reliable! OK, better acceleration, but a lot less reliable, and the filters they now have in diesels makes them dreadfully unreliable! But mine is an older car with few of the silly filters, and a standard engine management, so it is close to a real diesel car. :-)
    Last edited by top204; 10th February 2019 at 12:00.

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    Prolific Poster John Drew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    A lot of those early diesels would go for a million kms without taking the head off. Nissan's and Toyota's engines were especially good and you could see the engine when you lifted the bonnet. Nowadays you see plastic.
    John
    Last edited by John Drew; 10th February 2019 at 12:07.

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    Member teo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tesla acquires Maxwell for dry electrode technology?

    Hi ,
    I have a Mitsubishi Galant Turbo Diesel since 1989.
    Works perfectly with original parts. Starting this year, it has become a collection car, 30 years old !
    Maybe someone is interested in this car.
    Teo

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